A Little Knowledge Is A Dangerous Thing
I’ve written before about how important it is to be careful whose advice you trust with regard to all things baby related and nowhere is that more important than with breastfeeding, where the experts range from the hugely experienced and (and this is the important bit) up-to-date and qualified, to those who seemingly simply have a good agent. I’ll leave it to you to decide where the people I’m about to talk about fit into that spectrum.
Last Friday, I went with Mars Lord, doula extraordinaire, to The Baby Show. When you go anywhere with Mars, not only are you guaranteed to have a wonderful day, you are also very likely to have the privilege of hearing her talking to some of the many women who have had the pleasure of having her as their doula. Some of them have just had their babies, some have older babies or toddlers – but all rely on Mars to be the voice of reason. Always she offers non-judgemental wisdom, always she keeps the feelings and instincts of the mother and the baby/babies at the heart of what she says. She leaves these women feeling empowered, capable, confident, happy with their decisions and reassured that their instincts are sound.
She said something during the course of the day that I think is absolutely key to this baby-rearing malarkey. When talking about when a baby “should” sleep through, she said that all babies reach the same point eventually. You can either scream them there or love them there.
I’d like you to keep that in mind as you read the rest of this piece (actually, I’d like you to keep it in mind forever).
What was The Baby Show like?
I find it difficult to be wholly positive about events such as The Baby Show. On the one hand, there are some really very good exhibitors there who make products that are excellent and are happy to take on board constructive feedback (for instance, regarding idealising bottlefeeding by using bottles and teats in the promotion of their unrelated products, particularly changing bags). On the other hand, people are paying a not inconsiderable sum to see exhibitors who have paid for the privilege of putting their products on display – and to have one-to-one pitches from sales people who know that they can say pretty much whatever they like, unmonitored and unreported, to parents-to-be who are looking for information.
For instance, we overheard a well-known bottle and teat manufacturer rep saying that their breast pump wouldn’t “tear your nipple to shreds” (the implication being “like a baby will”). And a woman selling her changing bags there told us that the two insulated pockets for bottles were “essential”. When asked why we’d need them, she said, “Well, how else are you going to feed your baby?”. How indeed…
There were some excellent exhibitors. Special mention for Lollipop nappies, Baby Blooms, Miracle and Sugarjack who were among the best (and I admit to being utterly biased where Baby Blooms are concerned, having received one of their gorgeous bouquets after I had my younger son! How lovely to meet them in person and find out they are just as divine in the flesh!).
Anyway, after that rather nice digression, Mars and I found ourselves in the front row of chairs in front of The Baby Show stage. We were not expecting to hear much that impressed us and we weren’t disappointed…
Who was speaking?
Clare Byam-Cook. I’d seen her on television a few times (notably recently on the Vanessa show on Five – for a transcript, see the discussion page of Dispelling Breastfeeding Myths on Facebook), read various things about her, skimmed her books in book shops and, to be frank, I was expecting myths with just enough substance to be plausible to those who weren’t already pretty well informed.
Were you disappointed?
No. And yes. Not disappointed because what I expected was what I got. And yes because, really, is this level of “information” the best that we can offer to pregnant women at a nationally advertised and attended baby event? Really? Sheesh!
What do you mean?
Clare Byam-Cook’s “no-nonsense” style has won her fans across the celebrity sphere. Lucy Piper, the little blonde poppet who was presenting these segments on stage (an earlier one from Plum Baby talked about weaning from 17 weeks – did I already “sheesh”? I may need to again before the end of this piece, just to warn you…) looked harmless enough, but dig a bit deeper and you’ll find her promoting Nestle-made Kitkats and, as the presentation went on, it transpired that she was an ex client of CBC. CBC was introduced as having helped “many celebrities”, including Autumn Phillips most recently, with the implication that if slebs and <gasp> ROYALTY trust her, us mere mortals would do well to listen up and listen well. So I did and…
I took notes throughout, though I confess to being slack-jawed in amazed horror at times, so I may not have taken down every single point – but here are some of the “high”lights:
- (when talking about a woman who has large breasts with flatter nipples) “You would have to have given birth to a baby alligator to latch her on.”
- “Shove her on.”
- “If that feed lasts her three or four hours, she’s getting enough milk.”
- “The pump will show that she’s not got enough milk.”
- “Babies are like small toddlers. If you give her a good feed, she should go three to four hours.”
- “In the early days, time feeds.” (then ensued a convoluted explanation of timing how long to feed for, based upon how long the baby will sleep between feeds – Reader, I’m afraid she lost me!)
- “Every breastfeeding mothers should use…sorry, should have a breast pump.”
- “There are loads of pumps available here.”
- “I discuss all the brands and which is best in my books.”
- “I love Medela breast shields.”
- If I could line up 20 breastfeeding mothers and have them hooked up to breast pumps, one would fill a bottle in no time, another would take an hour to produce the same volume and another would never produce more than a few drops. That mother will never produce enough milk. (this is a precis of what CBC said, not a direct quote)
Two things that she got ticks for, from Mars and me. Lucy Piper asked if you should continue to breastfeed if you have mastitis and CBC said yes. And when asked about growth spurts, CBC said you should give yourself a chance to rest and feed.
But as to the other things she said? Did she mention the importance of skin-to-skin? No. Of being close to your baby, learning her feeding cues, that crying was a late indicator of hunger? No. How about that breastfeeding is about more than milk transfer, it’s about bonding, love, security? No. Instead, there was a lot about the importance of the baby being “in her own bed” and how she would be happy to be there, if she’d had a good feed and the mother was producing enough milk. The separation of mother and baby was emphasised both explicitly and implicitly with references to sleeping separately throughout, the absolute necessity of using a breast pump, getting someone else to give a bottle and even the use of breast shields.
Let’s examine some of the things she said in more detail:
- This is pretty much what she said on Vanessa: ”if you have huge breasts and you’ve given birth to a mini alligator, breastfeeding is quite easy, but if you have a normal little baby it can be quite tricky.” I didn’t agree with it then, I don’t now. Why not? Alligators have long, snouty noses, wholly inappropriate for latching onto a breast of any dimension. The image of a baby biting their way onto the breast leaps out of this sentence. Alligators are also REPTILES and hatch out of eggs, just like human babies don’t, so obviously a natural choice to use as an image of good breastfeeders…
- She talks about “shoving” babies on rather a lot – a great deal of her language is violent and distant – and babies who are “shoved” onto the breast, perhaps especially those who have been forceps deliveries, are often not keen at all to breastfeed. Biological nurturing positions and breast crawl weren’t mentioned; indeed, CBC said something about the baby never going to latch on by themselves.
- Some babies do indeed go three or four hours between feeds, though it is likely to be between SOME feeds, not all, especially in the early days. They may fall into a regular pattern very quickly. This is normal for them. Other babies feed far more frequently and erratically – this is normal for them. BOTH patterns are fine, as is everything in between, so long as the baby is latching well and taking milk at each feed. There is a wonderful diagram of Baby Connie’s feeding patterns on the Breastfeeding Network site, which is incredibly reassuring for anyone concerned that their baby isn’t automatically in some Truby King style routine (NB other strident, routine-based self-proclaimed baby gurus are available).
- No, the pump will show that the breast pump isn’t necessarily as effective as getting milk from a breast as a well-latched baby. I’ve known women who never could express a drop successfully breastfeed twins. And why a pump, anyway? No mention of hand expressing in the entire talk. But I guess you already own your hands and they can’t sponsor anybody, so…
- Babies aren’t like small toddlers. They are like babies. You can tell, because they’re called “babies”. They grow into toddlers, true, but this comparison is like calling toddlers small adults. Anyway, anyone who’s owned a toddler themselves will know that a comparison with a puppy is probably a more accurate one!
- Time feeds. Or, you know…don’t. Breastfeeding infuriates people of a certain type because the exact nature of the relationship that develops is so woman/baby-specific. Books and health visitors that talk about strict routines don’t like that, because you can’t tell them (and they can’t, therefore, tell you) how many ounces your baby should be having. Hence the timing feeds thing, I reckon. Don’t you?
- Freudian slip though it may have been, I think it very telling that CBC laid it on so thick about having a breast pump. She recommended buying one before the baby was born, so that you have it in the middle of the night and can get used to assembling it (but then said if you keep the receipt, they’ll take it back if you don’t use it – really? After it’s been unpacked and test assembled? Really, really?). Also, I think that shops are likely to still exist once you’ve had your baby, so wait and see how you go.
- Yes, there are loads of pumps available at The Baby Show. Feel free to mention it several times in the course of half an hour…
- Perhaps the reason for Clare Byam-Cook’s nickname of “Clare Buy-my-Book”? It felt like a chat show appearance by an eager Z-list sleb (oh, hang on…).
- Medela. The WHO Code-breakers. Of course.
- I’m not sure there are words to discuss some sort of Britain’s Got Talent style demonstration of milking women on stage. Suffice to say, “What the frell?!”. Oh, and perhaps I’d better throw in a “Sheesh!” for good measure. What purpose would this serve? Yes, perhaps you’d demonstrate that some women express more milk than others – big whoop. As I’ve already said, it’s perfectly possible for a woman to produce plenty of milk without being able to express a drop.
She also talked about how nipple confusion doesn’t exist (when a baby finds it hard to swap between breast and bottle). I wonder whether this is why so many of the bottle manufacturers lay it on thick about their teats making it so easy to switch between bottle and breast? Hmm?
And she also made much of shaping your breast to fit it into your baby’s mouth, something that can cause a baby with a small mouth to slide down and suck on and then damage the nipple. Better is the flipple technique (something I did with the boys, quite without knowing it was called the “flipple”, I must say!).
I was interested to see that CBC often uses the phrase, “Breast is best” – something that has fallen way out of favour with many, many others (including myself) who care about good breastfeeding support. As I said in my last piece, it sets a standard and doesn’t help anyone to attain it. It is a meaningless phrase. Breast is normal, the default way to feed a baby – there’s nothing “best” about it, it is simply ordinary.
What were your conclusions?
Women who’d sat through this would believe that if their baby wanted to feed more often than three or four hourly, there was something wrong with their breastfeeding - probably lack of milk. CBC spent a lot of her time talking about how many women she sees who don’t have enough milk; the effect of feeding three or four hourly from the off? I couldn’t possibly say, having not seen the women in question, but it seems very likely. Babies need feeding frequently in the early weeks, to ensure that the cells that make milk realise that that’s what they need to be doing and don’t go, “Er, right, chaps, no call for us, we’ll be off then” – which is what they often do when you supplement with formula or try to over-space feeds by use of a dummy or similar.
Clare Byam-Cook referenced her books at least three times during the course of the presentation and said that she discusses all the brands “and which is best” in them. It is at this point that I could link to her books on Amazon, but I can’t bring myself to (even though if you clicked through and bought them from Amazon, you’d be tossing a few coppers in the HBFW coffers!) – instead, I will link to several books that you’d be FAR better reading for insight, information and, above all, a knowledgeable perspective on all things breastfeeding and attachment.
If anybody’s looking to book a breastfeeding expert for an event, please look beyond, “Who’s that woman Vanessa used? Book her, then we’ll go for a coffee” – there are people with actual up-to-date qualifications who know about breastfeeding out there. Loads of them. Please use a bit of creativity and find some of them. In fact, have a look here.
And a breast pump isn’t a necessary part of breastfeeding. Use one by all means if it makes your life easier, but don’t imagine for one moment that it’s an essential piece of baby kit. And remember who needs shoving – I’ll give you a clue, it’s not your alligator.
Filed under: Breastfeeding celebrities, Breastfeeding in the media, breastfeeding promotion, Discussion, Feelings about breastfeeding
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Sarah pointed me in the direction of this post because I came home from The Baby Show yesterday swearing about this woman. I could only handle listening to her for 20 mins before I got too angry and had to walk away. She said the baby alligator thing then as well, and of course repeated all the other rubbish that you’ve summarised in your post (I believe she calls her method ‘shape and shove’ by the way). It made me feel very said for the pregnant women at their partners sat there taking it all in, who will go home thinking if their baby doesn’t sleep in its own cot for 3 hours after a feed that there’s something wrong with them or with their baby. Her advice works against all the evidence-based information that mother support organisations are trying to get out there, and all so she can sell a few books. It wouldn’t be so bad if her advice was benign, but a lot of it has the potential to be actively damaging to breastfeeding! I feel like I should write a letter to The Baby Show organisers about all this but would it do any good?
Sorry for the ramble!
Becky (a BfN Helper)
Hi Becky
Shape and shove – yes, I can well believe that, sadly!
The Baby Show is rather likely to make the most money from the companies that CBC is promoting, but writing a letter to register distaste is never a waste of time, in my experience!
We spoke to one woman who’d looked particularly baffled throughout the presentation, so at least she will go home knowing not to take what was said to heart.
Please, feel free to come and ramble any time – I love talking to people about this, as you might imagine!
Jane (HBFW)
I haven’t had the pleasure of hearing this particular “educational speech” but fear that I would have been moved to heckle.
I don’t have a long period of breastfeeding experience under my belt, but i have some, some reading from decent sources and peer supporter training. I think, going by this and her usual good form on TV that I could probably give far better, more accurate information than she can.
Shape and shove? Is she for real? Someone shove her face into her food, see if she develops an aversion to that particular meal!
I am pregnant with my second and I’m going to get help from those in the know to write a “baby friendly” birth plan, as I want my baby delivered onto my tummy and left alone, no cleaning or shoving or messing around, to be allowed to crawl and self attach. It’s the blueprint for our breastfeeding relationship and we deserve for it to be dignified and respectful.
We were tempted, very tempted to heckle! It is difficult at an event like that, where she had the microphone and we would have been barely heard by those at the back, had we said anything beyond our initial question (because I doubt the mic would’ve been back to us after that!). She believes so wholeheartedly in what she says that it’s very difficult to challenge her. And, after all, don’t forget she has been in the presence of sleb bosoms (and their alligators, one presumes), so she’s nigh on unassailable in this format. Gah.
I hope your birth goes the way you want – it sounds wonderful! Feel free to ask on the wall on Facebook if you’d like any specific info/tips for your birth plan and I’ll point knowledgeable people in your direction (and post myself, of course!): http://www.facebook.com/HowBreastfeedingWorks
Thanks for this article. CBC last practised as a midwife over 23 years ago! She told me personally that breastfeeding wasn’t a part of her original training all those years ago. She said she has NEVER taken any breastfeeding courses / qualification and doesn’t attend conferences etc to keep up to date with latest research / practice. I have been told of many women who have turned to trained volunteer breastfeeding supporters after being FAILED by CBC – after paying what I believe to be about 120 pounds!
Be aware!
That is some seriously unhelpful ‘advice’
my son rarely went more than 2.5 hours during the daytime until we were well into solids. He has always been around the 91st percentile, so I clearly have plenty of milk! Luckily, I prepared for breastfeeding by reading The Breastfeeding Book by William and Martha Sears, which gives great advice
Oh how absolutely awful. I could only bear to read about just over half before I became so saddened that someone who is clearly influential to some mothers has got the majority of her information WRONG! I despair that we will ever get breastfeeding recognised for it’s supremecy in all things, in the UK and that we will ever have someone of some notoriety being able to give supportive and accurate information at such places as baby shows and fairs.
Joy, that is fascinating – I hadn’t realised she was quite so brash about her lack of knowledge. I wonder what would have happened had we challenged her – next time…! Why anybody pays for support that is available free, I have no idea. I wonder whether some women want “permission” to stop breastfeeding and having CBC’s blessing to do so (in the form of being told they have low milk supply after over-spacing feeds) is worth the money? Just musing, really – I guess she knows the sleb thing works well as enticement for a certain type too. Personally, I’d rather have good information from someone who’s never sat on Vanessa’s sofa, but that’s just me!
Perfectly normal feed spacing, Lori – and yes, an excellent book, I had one by the Sears too, though I can’t remember what it was called (will have to dig it out, I think!).
Sue, watch this space – please don’t despair! Feel free to email me, in fact, on info@howbreastfeedingworks.com for more info about what I’m currently doing in this regard. It’ll be OK, promise! xx
Surely something needs to be done about this woman?! She needs to be reported to someone and to be totally discredited. She cannot be allowed to go on spouting this complete nonsense and damaging a lot of peoples chances of successfully breastfeeding. Grrrrrr….
I’ve b/f two babies and neither one ever went more than 2 hours between feeds as small infants. They also rarely slept longer than 20 minutes during the day or through the night until well into their second years of life. Miraculously, they were both above the 95th percentile for height and weight and are utterly content and wondrous little creatures. I get incensed by people who sprout such complete crap about bf. No wonder so many people give up.
Well, CBC was the only person out of La Leche, breast feeding groups, NCT, hospital visits, home visits, etc. who was able to get my baby to latch on and enable us to successfully breastfeed. I spoke to her personally on the phone several times and eventually watched her DVD. I am truly grateful to her for helping us. I had never heard of her prior to being recommended and had no idea she had helped celebrities. Her method worked for us and all it cost was the price of the DVD (which I got back on ebay). Thanks CBC, you worked for us!